Grandma - An Early Feminist or Just Fiesty?

[flossieskid]

I have been recently watching reruns of different Walton episodes and noticed two things:
1. as often as Grandpa would cajole his wife with cute acts of affection or teasing “…the old woman”, Esther Walton gave as good as she got. She never failed to respect her husband, but always spoke her mind - to him, to her son AND to her grandchildren- and
2. sometimes that “spunk” she showed seem to guide Zeb to do exactly what she wanted, yet as all smart wives do : made her husband think “he” made the decision she wanted him to make.

While I know, “feminism” wasn’t a concept even in existence at the time the show was made (well, perhaps a little at the end of the ‘70’s) it was not something that Esther or Olivia seemed to embrace, yet they helped shape the other strong women in the Walton family. For example, Mary Ellen becoming a doctor, instead of just a nurse illustrated the strength Walton women possessed. Grandma was a wonderful role model. While she thrived as a homemaker and stay at home mother, I always thought she would have enjoyed having a job outside the home and she would have excelled at that, too!

But, to me, Grandma Walton always seemed to be walking a fine line between “docile domesticity” and “fearless feminine freedom” to act the way she wanted. But, I very much got the feeling she thought, “It’s my way or the highway.” Do I recall correctly that one time Zeb went to stay at Flossie’s Boarding House after a strong disagreement with Esther?

I can’t remember if Grandma Walton was based on the memories of Earl’s own grandmother? In reviewing the shows, I was struck how Esther was such a force in that large family. But, I can’t decide if she wanted more independence and resisted the pigeonhole of that stay-at-home persona. Did Esther secretly wish she could have traveled her own independent path, like Mary Ellen did as a wife, mother AND have a fulfilling job outside the home? Or was Grandma Walton just more feisty than most? Did she harbor a dream of a life off Walton’s mountain? Her bickering with Zeb (and other family members) sometimes seemed to be the echo of discontent and I just wonder if she was a feminist even before Gloria Steinem was a twinkle in her father’s eye?!?

Having never had the joy of any grandmother in my life, I was just wondering what others on the Forum thought about the strong matriarch of the Walton family? Or am I just reading too much into Esther’s impatience, sarcasm and biting remarks geared (get it -“Geered”) toward Zeb and the other family members.

Just wondering……

[Easton]

I see more independence in Grandma and Olivia rather than feminism. Grandma was feisty to be sure, but I'm drawn to Ellen's admission to Earl and the producers that, to help avoid the saccharine TV shows of that time, that she wanted to play Grandma with a little 'salt', and Ellen played her with just the right amount. But that's what Grandpa loved about her. She was as salty as he was sweet.

Grrandma was very outspoken with the family and not afraid to share her thoughts with them, but she rarely spoke up in front of the friends or visitors who came to stay at the Walton house. Even after her stroke, Ellen managed to bring out that salt in her eyes. (If you've ever seen her reaction to Cousin Rose taking over her bedroom you know what I mean.) Ellen's face did a lot of acting.

[patriciaanne]

Women have been strong and independent long before Gloria Steinem was ever thought of. Earl's real grandmother, according to everything he said publicly, was a lovely, sweet woman. But as Easton said, Ellen felt strongly that the Waltons' cast needed some vinegar. And how right she was!

As for the Grandma character, my interpretation was that she was very happy to be a homemaker, wife, mother, grandmother. But she also did not suffer fools, and no one was going to push her around. And none of those things are mutually exclusive.

[Deleted]

I always thought she was anti-feminism. She did not drive, did not see why other women wanted to drive, could not handle Mary Ellen wanting to be a doctor and did not know of any women doctors and seemed to be religious amongst other things.

First Wave feminism as we know it started in the 18th Century.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-wave_feminism 

"Judith Sargent Murray published the early and influential essay On the Equality of the Sexes in 1790, blaming poor standards in female education as the root of women's problems"  

[Brenda]

In the Season 2 episode The Awakening, Grandpa told John Boy a story about a girl called Sissy who was “a pretty young thing, smart as a whip and could hold her own with any man.” When she was 18, she wanted to go to Richmond and open a dress shop. Grandpa said he felt sorry for Sissy because her dreams never amounted to anything, because she chose to marry him instead.

So, Esther had choices as a young woman. She could have been a business woman. Instead she chose to marry and have a family.  I imagine she used her business mindset when raising her children and running her household. 

[Easton]

^ Ah, yes. The thimble. I'd forgot about that.

[goodnight]

She seemed opposed to Olivia wanting to learn to drive and take that art class.

[runhard]

Jul 28, 2022 6:48:23 GMT -5 flossieskid said:

I have been recently watching reruns of different Walton episodes and noticed two things:
1. as often as Grandpa would cajole his wife with cute acts of affection or teasing “…the old woman”, Esther Walton gave as good as she got. She never failed to respect her husband, but always spoke her mind - to him, to her son AND to her grandchildren- and
2. sometimes that “spunk” she showed seem to guide Zeb to do exactly what she wanted, yet as all smart wives do : made her husband think “he” made the decision she wanted him to make.

While I know, “feminism” wasn’t a concept even in existence at the time the show was made (well, perhaps a little at the end of the ‘70’s) it was not something that Esther or Olivia seemed to embrace, yet they helped shape the other strong women in the Walton family. For example, Mary Ellen becoming a doctor, instead of just a nurse illustrated the strength Walton women possessed. Grandma was a wonderful role model. While she thrived as a homemaker and stay at home mother, I always thought she would have enjoyed having a job outside the home and she would have excelled at that, too!

But, to me, Grandma Walton always seemed to be walking a fine line between “docile domesticity” and “fearless feminine freedom” to act the way she wanted. But, I very much got the feeling she thought, “It’s my way or the highway.” Do I recall correctly that one time Zeb went to stay at Flossie’s Boarding House after a strong disagreement with Esther?

I can’t remember if Grandma Walton was based on the memories of Earl’s own grandmother? In reviewing the shows, I was struck how Esther was such a force in that large family. But, I can’t decide if she wanted more independence and resisted the pigeonhole of that stay-at-home persona. Did Esther secretly wish she could have traveled her own independent path, like Mary Ellen did as a wife, mother AND have a fulfilling job outside the home? Or was Grandma Walton just more feisty than most? Did she harbor a dream of a life off Walton’s mountain? Her bickering with Zeb (and other family members) sometimes seemed to be the echo of discontent and I just wonder if she was a feminist even before Gloria Steinem was a twinkle in her father’s eye?!?

Having never had the joy of any grandmother in my life, I was just wondering what others on the Forum thought about the strong matriarch of the Walton family? Or am I just reading too much into Esther’s impatience, sarcasm and biting remarks geared (get it -“Geered”) toward Zeb and the other family members.

Just wondering……

Listen to what Earl said about Ellen Corby and the way she played the role of Grandma he answers your question.

[Easton]

^ Wonderful stories. Wonderful video.

[patriciaanne]

^^^ I've seen that video before, but I loved seeing it and hearing those stories again. I had forgotten the one about Will and Earl's mother. 😂

[runhard]

Jul 29, 2022 0:32:56 GMT -5 patriciaanne said:

^^^ I've seen that video before, but I loved seeing it and hearing those stories again. I had forgotten the one about Will and Earl's mother. 😂

I think of all the voices I've ever heard in my life Earl Hamner Jr. has to have one of the most beautiful.

[flossieskid]

Thank you to runhard for posting the video with Earl talking about Ellen Corby’s portrayal of Grandma Walton along with his recollections of other talented cast members. Runhard was absolutely right - Earl’s words explained exactly why Ellen presented Esther the way she did. I had never seen the video and it was wonderful to have his oral history about The Waltons, on record. The one thing I noticed was Earl always maintained eye contact with the interviewer. So many people in show business will talk to you while cagily peering behind you to see if there is a “bigger name” in the room! Earl ALWAYS made you feel you were the only person he was interested in at that very moment. I’m sure people, like me, Brenda and others who were lucky enough to speak to Earl one on one can attest to his constant graciousness and genuine interest in your part of the conversation.

Many alluded to Grandma being independent, proud and happy of the life she chose. As someone pointed out, “feminism” had a precursor movement centuries before it became a hot button topic in the 1970’s. Somehow, I think that term got misunderstood. I feel blessed and so lucky that I have been able to do whatever I wanted in my life. I felt Grandma Walton’s independent streak allowed her to do the same during a very different time. Women in that era were not expected to work outside the home if they had a family. Grandma got her fulfillment and joy in life out of her role as wife, mother and grandmother. She was happy with the choice she made.

But, I also remember Olivia getting a part time job at some point later on in the series. I can’t recall if she felt she needed to help out the family because John’s business had slowed down and they needed the money or if it was just something Olivia wanted to do?
I can honestly say my Mom was the ONLY working mother during my entire years at school. Not one other mother worked outside the home and that was the case from my elementary school throughout high school.

I must say, in reading some of the comments about my reference to feminism, I still detected some negative “vibes” surrounding that phrase. A person who identifies as a “feminist” is simply someone who believes in the feminism philosophy that a woman should be given the exact same rights and privileges as any man and that includes equal pay for men and women doing the same work.

A feminist doesn’t have to only be a woman. I consider my husband very much a feminist. He is the one who insisted BOTH our children have my maiden name as their middle name and he has always supported parity between men and women in all facets of life. I consider Grandpa Walton to be a feminist. I think Zeb always thought of Esther as a full partner in their relationship and supported and appreciated her input in all aspects of their life together.

One of the great things about the Waltons series is the show developed strong story lines and episodes that reflected female empowerment and strength: like Mary Ellen becoming a doctor and Olivia going into the work force - or even Flossie Brimmer having her own business running the town’s only boarding house! I think the producers depicted strong women starting with Grandma. Whether it is considered independence, feistiness or just the good stock all Walton women come from, it was evident throughout the series.

I think Earl and the other writers and producers felt an obligation to develop good scripts that gave the women in the cast equal storylines and just as much screen time as the men.

However, it is still utterly shocking and shameful that women on a television series are treated as equally as the men on the program but we still do not have an Equal Rights Amendment to our Constitution that does the same.

I do think the real Grandma Hamner AND Ellen Corby would have something to say about that!!

[missyou123]

Jul 29, 2022 3:29:28 GMT -5 runhard said:

Jul 29, 2022 0:32:56 GMT -5 patriciaanne said:

^^^ I've seen that video before, but I loved seeing it and hearing those stories again. I had forgotten the one about Will and Earl's mother. 😂

I think of all the voices I've ever heard in my life Earl Hamner Jr. has to have one of the most beautiful.

So true. Makes me think of John Facenda. Not sure if you are familiar with him but he was a news caster and eventually became the voice behind the Christmas show at John Wanamaker Dept Store. The newer version would be Morgan Freeman. So soothing. 

[Easton]

I would rate Earl right up there with James Earl Jones.