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Post by Easton on Nov 28, 2020 15:20:14 GMT -5
Easton, I see feminism as something very subjective. One person can say something is a feminist action, another person can say that that same action was not a feminist action. Your definition of feminism differs from mine. Olivia fought for individual rights, but she certainly wasn't part of a political movement.
The suffragette movement in the US began in the early to mid-1800s. It was a political movement on a grand and national scale. Still, It took over a half-century for the 19th Amendment to be signed in the latter half of the 1920s giving American women the right to vote.
What we call the 'feminist movement' didn't begin until the 1960s.
Olivia was never part of a movement. She simply did what she thought was right just like the rest of the family. They all stood up for someone at one time or another throughout the series.
That's my opinion as a person who grew up during the bra-burning movement of the 60s. I'll just leave it at that.
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Post by patriciaanne on Nov 29, 2020 15:14:20 GMT -5
That's not really what I mean by feminism though. when I use the word, I mean it to describe somebody who believes in equal treatment for everyone, regardless of their gender. In many ways, both sides suffer when there is an inequality. That is part of the problem with a loaded word such as feminism. Feminism can mean so many things to different people. I think its really becoming a hateful word for a lot of women, especially those women who like men. but I think it's undeniable that her efforts to get justice for a woman who was raped and her actions to improve working conditions for women at the defence plant are both examples of pro-feminist behaviour. So what would you call it if a man was trying to accomplish justice for a woman (or man) who was raped or getting better working conditions for people? It's like there is a double standard and we want to label it special if a woman does it. No, it should not be special when a woman does something. I do not think most have history accurate as to what women could or could not do legally vs what was considered social norms. Women were free to do a lot of things all along, but chose not to. Yes, there we things that women could not legally do that have changed, but nothing Livy did was against the law. I think you hit the nail on the head. Why do we need a label at all? Can't we just say...Olivia did all these great things. Wow -- cool. |
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Post by patriciaanne on Nov 29, 2020 15:20:07 GMT -5
AR-15, I agree with Scarlett. This was a very interesting thread. I hope you won't regret starting it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2020 11:31:46 GMT -5
Having just watched Judy Norton's video on the Nurse, I would have to say that Nurse Nora was way more of an "advance woman" then any of the female characters. We see her single, educated beyond high school, holding a job, riding alone in the backwoods, as nothing amazing, but simply her doing a job.
I cannot think of any other character other than her that is completely bucking the trend of what womanhood was supposed to be like.
Interesting that Grandma did not like the thought of a woman doctor, but had no problem with a woman being a nurse.
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Post by Kyle on Nov 30, 2020 12:23:35 GMT -5
Having just watched Judy Norton's video on the Nurse, I would have to say that Nurse Nora was way more of an "advance woman" then any of the female characters. We see her single, educated beyond high school, holding a job, riding alone in the backwoods, as nothing amazing, but simply her doing a job. Couldn’t we say the same thing about Rosemary Hunter? (Minus the backwoods part). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2020 12:44:04 GMT -5
Having just watched Judy Norton's video on the Nurse, I would have to say that Nurse Nora was way more of an "advance woman" then any of the female characters. We see her single, educated beyond high school, holding a job, riding alone in the backwoods, as nothing amazing, but simply her doing a job. Couldn’t we say the same thing about Rosemary Hunter? (Minus the backwoods part). The backwoods rough and tumble is kind of important to the image of the "oppressed woman". Both nursing and teaching were seen as "safe female roles". Rosemary's life was much safer and comfortable than Nora's. If Rosemary was teaching/traveling in the backwoods, then she would have been neck and neck with Nora in my mind, at least until she got married. Actually, the most advanced modern thinking woman would have been the one that Livy went to work for in town doing some sewing and tailoring. That woman had her own business and was wanting to get a second one. She was definitely not oppressed. The whole feminism/oppression not being equal thing is, other than laws that needed to be changed, the person who is going to be the most oppressive to you, is … you. Amelia Mary Earhart flew her famous flight in the late 20's. Women have been living their lives for a very long time... if they chose to. |
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Post by carol on Nov 30, 2020 13:16:43 GMT -5
Couldn’t we say the same thing about Rosemary Hunter? (Minus the backwoods part). The backwoods rough and tumble is kind of important to the image of the "oppressed woman". Both nursing and teaching were seen as "safe female roles". Rosemary's life was much safer and comfortable than Nora's. If Rosemary was teaching/traveling in the backwoods, then she would have been neck and neck with Nora in my mind, at least until she got married. Actually, the most advanced modern thinking woman would have been the one that Livy went to work for in town doing some sewing and tailoring. That woman had her own business and was wanting to get a second one. She was definitely not oppressed. The whole feminism/oppression not being equal thing is, other than laws that needed to be changed, the person who is going to be the most oppressive to you, is … you. Amelia Mary Earhart flew her famous flight in the late 20's. Women have been living their lives for a very long time... if they chose to. Amelia Earhart disappeared July 2, 1937 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2020 15:50:12 GMT -5
^^^^
She had several flights. I am referring to her Transatlantic flight in 1928, well before the start of the Walton's.
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Post by kelliekay on Dec 4, 2020 17:48:07 GMT -5
I always wondered why Michael said all she did was pour coffee. Olivia never ever just poured coffee. She had lots of storylines. There were plenty of episodes all about her.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2020 18:36:53 GMT -5
I always wondered why Michael said all she did was pour coffee. Olivia never ever just poured coffee. She had lots of storylines. There were plenty of episodes all about her. I am watching Leave it To Beaver and compared to Livy, June literally does nothing but pour coffee and clean the house. I think Barbara really liked her role and she said something about June not having a bad life and that she was very much like June when she was not at work acting. I don't think there was one episode that was all about June, or Ward for that matter. |
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Post by Brenda on Dec 4, 2020 18:57:12 GMT -5
I always wondered why Michael said all she did was pour coffee. Olivia never ever just poured coffee. She had lots of storylines. There were plenty of episodes all about her. I am watching Leave it To Beaver and compared to Livy, June literally does nothing but pour coffee and clean the house. I think Barbara really liked her role and she said something about June not having a bad life and that she was very much like June when she was not at work acting. I don't think there was one episode that was all about June, or Ward for that matter. I watched Leave it to Beaver during its first run when I was a child, and I’m now enjoying watching it again on MeTV every morning. I’m impressed with June Cleaver’s ability to do her housework while wearing make-up, a dress, high heels, and pearls, and keeping every hair in place. I’m not sure I could do it.  👗👠💄 Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2020 19:07:20 GMT -5
^^^
If you keep up on your house cleaning, I think you could manage the weekly cleaning in heels. I am thinking June has a calendar and makes a schedule for herself and home. I think she wears flats those few times she is in jeans doing yardwork.
I could see her life being a good life if I had experienced all that I had wanted to before getting married or see it as simply taking a break to raise the kids. June is a college grad so once Beaver hit Jr high, she could go get her masters and have a new career once the Beav is gone.
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Post by Brenda on Dec 4, 2020 19:39:29 GMT -5
TV families like the Cleavers gave the impression that every American family of the 1950s had 2 parents, a nice house with a manicured lawn in the suburbs, a dad who went to work in an office, and a mom who stayed home and cooked and cleaned. Their entire existence revolved around their 2 kids who were respectful and well-behaved for the most part.
I grew up in that era, and that’s not what life was like. My dad worked in a chemical plant, and my mother worked in a sewing factory. She hurriedly prepared supper each evening and spent most of her Saturday catching up on laundry and housework. I think she would have been glad to live June Cleaver’s life, even if it meant wearing heels and pearls every day. My mother did wear a dress to work every day, by the way.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2020 19:45:00 GMT -5
I was raised very much like the Cleavers. My Amom did work off and on as she had a teaching credential. She got her masters when i was in the 8th grade and started teaching high school and then got her PhD and taught at a college years a few years after I was out of the house. The house was clean. That woman was a clean freak. I really did not like living there. I did the lawn manicuring. I had my first Briggs and Stratton 3hp mower when I was 11. I mowed lawns to pay the board bill for my horse.  |
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Post by patriciaanne on Dec 4, 2020 19:52:10 GMT -5
My mother was June Cleaver light. She did stay home and she cleaned the house and made dinner every night. But we grew up in an apartment. So how hard is it to clean an apartment? I always used to ask her if she got bored because I couldn't imagine that filling up an entire day. It's not like she had a big house and a garden to take of. I had all that, a 50-60 hour a week job and, depending on what job I had, anywhere from a 15 to 25 hour a week commute -- plus horses and other animals to take care of. Now THAT filled up a day! Different strokes for different folks, though. My mother was happy with the life she chose for herself and that's what counts.
In my "advancing" years, I really enjoy doing more traditional "housewifey" activities, but when I'm working, it's very hard to juggle. I'm on a very busy contract assignment right now and my husband laughs that he went from 3-course dinners with homemade bread to hamburgers. Lol I can do everything -- just not all at once. 😉
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