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Post by AR15 on Nov 20, 2020 18:52:43 GMT -5
I recently rewatched the The Pin-Up and I felt that one of John's lines in the episode seemed strange considering what we know about him and the family at large. For those who don't remember, this is the one where Erin poses for a photo in a pair of short shorts and, due to a mistake, it ends up getting printed in the newspapers and becomes really popular with soldiers in the area. John, as you would imagine based on his over-protective nature, is very against it and says "no woman should be seen like that, except for by her husband" obviously, by today's standards Erin's outfit is fairly tame, but I understand that things were different back then - but I think John's quote is much stricter than you'd expect from him or the family at large.
Other episodes always gave the impression that the family were very open about such things. We see John-Boy and Zebulon bathing nude together up on the mountain and they're not too bothered when a couple of people come across them. We know all the girls and all the boys slept three in a room, so that wouldn't have left much room for privacy. They often wander into each other's bedrooms without knocking too. In one episode, the children are surprised that John and Olivia's bedroom is locked when they try to go in - so presumably John and Olivia never had much privacy from the rest of the family in their room either. Elizabeth happily has baths with Aimee. Ben and Jim-Bob seem to go skinny dipping together at the start of The Ordeal. Callie May heavily suggests that she and John used to go skinny dipping together as teenagers. Olivia helps deliver Mary Ellen's baby and is completely unperturbed by the experience (and John-Boy delivers Sarah Jane's - though that was a bit different!)
All of these examples portray The Waltons as a family for whom nudity is just a fact of life, a non-sexual thing they'd encounter on a day to day basis without it being a big deal. This is also consistent with Olivia's attitude, when talking to Corabeth in one episode, about not hiding any of the facts of life from growing teenagers. Obviously, casual nakedness around family is entirely different from Erin being sexualised by hundreds of unknown soldiers (as John erroneously imagined), but, still, his statement that "no woman should be seen like that, except for by her husband" does seem inconsistent with the values displayed by the family in other episodes.
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Post by Easton on Nov 20, 2020 19:29:11 GMT -5
Ben and Jim-Bob seem to go skinny dipping together at the start of The Ordeal. They wore boxers.
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Post by jason88cubss on Nov 20, 2020 21:31:39 GMT -5
I think it was more than just Erin wearing those clothes
John probably thought people would have an image of Erin that wa snot good and could affect the Walton name
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Post by AR15 on Nov 21, 2020 6:54:31 GMT -5
My mistake - I remembered Elizabeth and Aimee running off and telling them they were horrible and I thought after that you were just lead to believe they were swimming naked. I guess I misremembered!
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Post by Kyle on Nov 21, 2020 7:36:05 GMT -5
Grandpa showed nip in “The Sinner.” Miss Prissom was horrified.
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Post by whisper on Nov 21, 2020 8:06:55 GMT -5
Grandpa showed nip in “The Sinner.” Miss Prissom was horrified. I loved that
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Post by Easton on Nov 21, 2020 9:57:35 GMT -5
My mistake - I remembered Elizabeth and Aimee running off and telling them they were horrible and I thought after that you were just lead to believe they were swimming naked. I guess I misremembered! Not quite. Ben warned the girls that he and Jim-Bob were going swimming and started taking off his shirt and boots. Elizabeth thought he was teasing. They ran away when Ben told them that the pants were coming off and they realised he was being serious. However, Ben in clearly in his shorts when he enters the water.
Still, I'm sure there was a good amount of skinny dipping going on. I grew up in the 50s and skinny dipping in the local swimming hole was a neighbourhood tradition even then.
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Post by e knight on Nov 21, 2020 11:07:38 GMT -5
Grandpa showed nip in “The Sinner.” Miss Prissom was horrified. Olivia was probably thinking "Oh great, just great! The one day in nine seasons that everybody strips off and goes swimming is when Reverend Doofus and his Busybodies drop by!"
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Post by Kyle on Nov 21, 2020 13:26:26 GMT -5
I love “The Sinner,” because of the interesting religious conflict between John and Livvie. I saw him overriding her decision about letting the children go swimming and thought “whoa - not cool.” But the husband was generally in charge back then (though tell that to my grandmother, who was roughly the same age in that era, and definitely “wore the pants” in her family).
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Post by jason88cubss on Nov 21, 2020 14:57:08 GMT -5
My mistake - I remembered Elizabeth and Aimee running off and telling them they were horrible and I thought after that you were just lead to believe they were swimming naked. I guess I misremembered! Not quite. Ben warned the girls that he and Jim-Bob were going swimming and started taking off his shirt and boots. Elizabeth thought he was teasing. They ran away when Ben told them that the pants were coming off and they realised he was being serious. However, Ben in clearly in his shorts when he enters the water.
Still, I'm sure there was a good amount of skinny dipping going on. I grew up in the 50s and skinny dipping in the local swimming hole was a neighbourhood tradition even then.
Also back in the days when you could pee outside without worrying being a sex offender
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 16:02:41 GMT -5
Was it the wearing of shorts or the posing that got John? Also, it was in the newspaper and maybe that made it too public. Was John afraid of what the neighbors would think? Here is a Mcalls pattern for shorts in the 40's. What Erin wore wasn't any worse than this. Also, John had no problem looking at other men's daughters, so why should he care if other men look at his daughters?
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Post by patriciaanne on Nov 21, 2020 16:40:34 GMT -5
Was it the wearing of shorts or the posing that got John? Also, it was in the newspaper and maybe that made it too public. Was John afraid of what the neighbors would think? Here is a Mcalls pattern for shorts in the 40's. What Erin wore wasn't any worse than this. Also, John had no problem looking at other men's daughters, so why should he care if other men look at his daughters? I think he felt that she was being objectified and that's what he was upset about. Although based on Livy's reaction to Mary Ellen's short shorts in The Dust Bowl Cousins, it may have also been the outfit. You will also recall that John pitched a fit when Erin wanted to compete in a beauty contest that had a swimsuit competition. Again, because she'd be on display. He didn't seem to mind anyone wearing a swimsuit at the swimming hole.
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Post by pinkbaker07 on Nov 23, 2020 19:43:35 GMT -5
He probably didn't want his daughter looking like the town (censored). No decent father wants his daughters oogled over.
My daddy would have tanned my hide if I dressed like that.
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Post by AR15 on Jul 21, 2021 7:12:32 GMT -5
I'm currently reading Mary McDonough's autobiography, Lessons from the Mountain. It's a really, really good book so far and I recommend it to fans of the show or of Mary's work in general. Anyway, I was reminded of this thread when I read a chapter recently. She explained her feelings about the human body and how she was being pulled in different directions by both her mother and Will Geer. Her mother was a fairly strict Catholic who believed that the body was a shameful and private thing that must never be seen (she mentions that even getting changed alongside her female co-stars would have been considered inappropriate) - meanwhile, Will Geer was the complete opposite end of the spectrum and considered the human body to be a beautiful thing in all its shapes and sizes and didn't think anybody should be ashamed of their bodies or feel the need to hide them - saying it was just the natural state of people. One day she went to see a production at Will Geer's Theatricum Botanicum - she said that there was a strong "hippy" vibe to the place and there was a man just casually strolling around naked - her first time seeing the opposite sex naked. She said she found it funny and even agreed with Will Geer that it was perfectly "natural" and nothing to be embarrassed about. However, her mother was mortified at the sight of it and made a big scene of being disgusted, so they had to leave. Noticing this, at Christmastime, Will discreetly gave her a book full of nude photography, because he was concerned she wasn't going to learn about the human body at home. She said she kept the book ever since and used it to teach her own children about puberty, growing up and the variations in how people can look. Very nice to hear of Will's legacy helping to educate future generations! I thought that was a lovely little story and quite funny too - I thought I'd share it for anyone who's not had a chance to read it and because it is somewhat relevant to this thread
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Post by patriciaanne on Jul 21, 2021 9:56:38 GMT -5
Interesting -- I read that book and don't recall that piece. I have to reread it.
I'm no prude, but I really don't want to walk outside and see people walking around naked. I think there should be some boundaries.
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