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Post by AR15 on Aug 14, 2020 16:57:33 GMT -5
I have recently been watching through The Waltons from the start again and am currently mid-way through Season 6. This is quite nice and the first time I've done it in a few years (during which time, I'd just dip in with random favourites).
Anyway, there's a slightly different way that I'm looking at things this time. Throughout Seasons 1 to 4, you have the family overcoming hardships, but ultimately life gets better and better for them. John-Boy goes to college and starts a newspaper. Mary Ellen becomes a nurse. Jason gets a chance to study music, while also working as a musician in various places. John gets to expand the lumber business. It's all on the up and up for them and it's really nice to see good things happening for them, because they deserve it!
But around Season 5, it starts to fall apart. Rather than the story of a family who works hard and finds success as a consequence of this, it becomes a story of a family torn apart by sickness, war and death. I guess Esther's stroke is the first crack in their idealised life - the time when the tables slowly begin to turn. After that, the war begins to impact their life more and more and slowly, a large portion is drawn away from the mountain - usually for reasons that aren't so good. Olivia has to move to Arizona due to sickness. Esther mysteriously vanishes to visit 'cousins' and I suppose that can be read as finding it too hard to endure reminders of Zebulon's absence while she's at home. John-Boy's heart is broken and he comes back from war a shell of a man.
It's quite tragic, really. I know some people dislike the later seasons - I don't. I love every season of The Waltons... but this time around, I find it a lot sadder to watch with all the tragedies which lie ahead in my mind.
I suppose the reunion movies are the light at the end of the tunnel - as much as they may be a bit of a nightmare in terms of the show's timeline, they do at least have mostly happy endings (ignoring the additional tragedy of needlessly killing off Ben and Cindy's kids!)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2020 20:05:17 GMT -5
Esther mysteriously vanishes to visit 'cousins' and I suppose that can be read as finding it too hard to endure reminders of Zebulon's absence while she's at home. John-Boy's heart is broken and he comes back from war a shell of a man. I thought Esther was gone because she got a spring in her step after that man who wanted to marry her. It was now her second spring. I never thought JB was a shell of a man. I thought he was pretty normal after he figured out what happened with Kattie Ann.
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Post by carol on Aug 15, 2020 0:36:32 GMT -5
Well John Boy did come home from the war an entirely different person than when he left the mountain a few years before. He left as Richard Thomas and came back as Robert Wightman.
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Post by AR15 on Aug 15, 2020 6:15:16 GMT -5
I never thought JB was a shell of a man. I thought he was pretty normal after he figured out what happened with Kattie Ann. I'm glad you can interpret it more positively! I also remember that with Esther, they do mention she was taking care of somebody, so that's not necessarily a negative. With regard to John-Boy, he never seemed to get back his old passion and enthusiasm. Just compare The Achievement to The Revel. Essentially, it's the same story, with John-Boy heading to New York to get a novel published. The first time he's successful and enters an exciting new chapter of life. The second time he's a failure and ends of sleeping in the park. It just felt like he'd lost something of himself. Again, no disrespect to the writers or Robert Wightman - the storylines and portrayal of John-Boy in later seasons were still very interesting to watch and I enjoy those episodes, they just feel more negative overall.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2020 9:57:46 GMT -5
I never thought JB was a shell of a man. I thought he was pretty normal after he figured out what happened with Kattie Ann. With regard to John-Boy, he never seemed to get back his old passion and enthusiasm. Just compare The Achievement to The Revel. It just felt like he'd lost something of himself. Lost something of himself? Of course, he seemed lost, he did lose. He lost his reflection in the mirror and in calm water, pant size, hairstyle, voice, and his mole amongst other things. I suppose all of that would cause one to lose their passion and enthusiasm.
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Post by runhard on Aug 16, 2020 0:23:13 GMT -5
I've been watching The Waltons every night for the last few weeks and it's been fantastic to be reunited with this wonderful show. I have to say there's an element of truth that the series started to change after season four but that's common in many shows for a number of reasons. After 95 episodes you have to start branching the storyline out and developing the characters and introducing new ones as well. You can't keep all the children little and their characters have to develop as they start to become adults hence they leave or get married. Then think of the time period when the show started it was the depression then moved into World War II so there was going to be change. Any family who had sons would see them go to war so you knew for sure with advent of war the sons would be leaving. At the end of season five Richard Thomas's contract was up and he decided to leave the show with the blessing of Earl Hamner. Then at the start of season six Ellen Corby had a stroke and miss the entire season until the final episode. Season seven opens with the death of Will Geer which in my opinion was a devastating blow because Grandpa's wisdom was irreplaceable. All shows only have so many years then they run their course The Waltons lasted nine seasons the last couple with most of the original cast gone it was probably time to wrap it up. As far as John Boy returning home different well that's consistent with many veterans who came home who had changed, but stop and remember this one thing Earl Hamner over saw each script whether he wrote it or not. He would do rewrites on many or all of the scripts because he oversaw everything so if it wasn't good for him we would've never seen it on the screen.
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Post by alanankrett1 on Aug 16, 2020 3:36:36 GMT -5
My opinion on this subject has always been the same. The first 5 seasons were brilliant. After Richard Thomas left it started to go downhill but season 6 was still ok as was season 7 even though not quite so good as the previous. Seasons 8 and 9 were not very good at all but I still quite enjoyed them. I enjoyed all seasons and all episodes just not quite so much as the first 5 seasons.
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Post by Easton on Aug 16, 2020 6:35:19 GMT -5
Then at the start of season six Ellen Corby had a stroke and miss the entire season until the final episode. Just one correction. Ellen's last appearance as a regular was in Season 5's Episode 15 (of 24), The Elopement. She suffered the stroke part-way through the filming of the episode and, even though she was referenced a few times, she did not appear in the entire episode, nor did she appear in the final 9 episodes of Season 5. A few episodes after The Elopement, her absence was explained, that she had suffered a stroke and was in hospital, at least to let the audience know that Ellen was still alive and recovering.
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Post by sdw on Aug 18, 2020 10:00:15 GMT -5
Easton Ellen Corby last episode before her stroke was The Ferris Wheel.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2020 11:16:08 GMT -5
Easton Ellen Corby last episode before her stroke was The Ferris Wheel. Yes, I think the last clear words she says are "She is gone again"
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Post by Easton on Aug 18, 2020 17:25:04 GMT -5
Easton Ellen Corby last episode before her stroke was The Ferris Wheel. Thank you. I remember it now. I can see Grandpa running across the livingroom toward the front door as he's pulling on his bathrobe. He shouts to Grandma over his shoulder.
The 'Episode Guide' I use has it wrong. At the end of The Elopement is this notation: "This is the last episode in which Grandma appears, as Ellen Corby had a severe stroke after this episode was filmed. She very courageously made her next appearance in Grandma Comes Home (S6/1) and in occasional episodes thereafter."
I've just noticed that the episode number is also wrong. Grandma Comes Home is Episode 22.
The episode guide is a private website, a corroboration and creation of 2 Walton fans. Here's the website. It has scenarios of every episode and special, all of Earl Hamner's narrations, cast, crew, and occasional notes.
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Post by Easton on Aug 18, 2020 17:48:35 GMT -5
I think the thing which really knocked the wind out of the Walton's sails was not only what happened, but how rapidly things happened. It wouldn't have been as noticeable in the original run when one season took a whole year to watch, but in these days of syndication and DVDs allowing binge-watching, you can see it all happen in one or two sittings. So, let's take a look at the timeline:
Season 5, Episode 16 - Ellen Corby suffers her stroke and Grandma is not seen again until the last episode in Season 6. Season 5, Episode 24 - Richard Thomas leaves the show and John-Boy doesn't return to the show until Episode 21 (a two-parter) and Episode 22 in Season 6. Season 7 - During the break between Seasons 6 and 7, both Will Geer and Nora Marlowe passed away, losing both Grandpa and Flossie Brimmer with the acknowledged deaths of both characters. Season 7, Episode 10 - Curt Willard is killed (supposedly) during the attack on Pearl Harbor. Season 7, Episode 15 - Olivia contracts TB and leaves the show.
A lot happened and there were a lot of changes in those 2 seasons. Grandma's return was welcomed. Olivia's return seemed empty for the most part. The magic was gone. John-Boy's return was difficult to accept but Curt's return was impossible.
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Post by goodnight on Aug 18, 2020 19:39:15 GMT -5
I never thought JB was a shell of a man. I thought he was pretty normal after he figured out what happened with Kattie Ann. I'm glad you can interpret it more positively! I also remember that with Esther, they do mention she was taking care of somebody, so that's not necessarily a negative.With regard to John-Boy, he never seemed to get back his old passion and enthusiasm. Just compare The Achievement to The Revel. Essentially, it's the same story, with John-Boy heading to New York to get a novel published. The first time he's successful and enters an exciting new chapter of life. The second time he's a failure and ends of sleeping in the park. It just felt like he'd lost something of himself. Again, no disrespect to the writers or Robert Wightman - the storylines and portrayal of John-Boy in later seasons were still very interesting to watch and I enjoy those episodes, they just feel more negative overall. It seems like I recall they said she was taking care of her sister Angie in another county.
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Post by carol on Aug 18, 2020 20:27:58 GMT -5
I never thought JB was a shell of a man. I thought he was pretty normal after he figured out what happened with Kattie Ann. I'm glad you can interpret it more positively! I also remember that with Esther, they do mention she was taking care of somebody, so that's not necessarily a negative. With regard to John-Boy, he never seemed to get back his old passion and enthusiasm. Just compare The Achievement to The Revel. Essentially, it's the same story, with John-Boy heading to New York to get a novel published. The first time he's successful and enters an exciting new chapter of life. The second time he's a failure and ends of sleeping in the park. It just felt like he'd lost something of himself. Again, no disrespect to the writers or Robert Wightman - the storylines and portrayal of John-Boy in later seasons were still very interesting to watch and I enjoy those episodes, they just feel more negative overall. No one who has been in the war comes home the same person they were when they left. Anyone who has fought in a war and has watched their fellow soldiers die in action and had to pull a trigger or throw a grenade and kill other men and who have seen all the ugliness of the war will be changed. You can't help but be changed by that. That is why most soldiers come home with some degree of PTSD.
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Post by alanankrett1 on Aug 18, 2020 20:34:49 GMT -5
Hi Easton
Don't rely too much on info from websites. HEHE.
Still, credit where credit is due, you do rummage a lot to answer our questions my friend
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